Topic #61 (Attention All Harold Camping & FR Listeners) Has Been Deleted

There has been enough bickering on this topic.

There have been enough insinuations on this topic.

My wife and I erroneously thought we could successfully moderate a discussion among Christians on this topic without rancor, backbiting and name calling.

Alas, we were sorely mistaken.  

We’ve stopped the bleeding by pulling the plug on the patient.

For the time being, we have kept the other HC/FR related postings…but if the comments/discussions they generate begin to resemble the now infamous Topic #61, we will not hesitate to pull all of them as well.

One final comment: as for ourselves, we sincerely endeavored not to attack any individual personally — our target was on the teaching and doctrinal positions.  In fact, we encouraged others not to make their comments personal.  The focus was always intended to be on the teaching.  If others believe we attacked individual(s), then we apologize.  That was not our intention; however, we all know where that road leads to.

If people wish to continue this debate/discussion, then please do so on any number of the other websites/blogs that are out there.  

We leave the readers of this blog with this thought from Phil 4:8: Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things [are] honest, whatsoever things [are] just, whatsoever things [are] pure, whatsoever things [are] lovely, whatsoever things [are] of good report; if [there be] any virtue, and if [there be] any praise, think on these things.

To God Be The Glory!

Satan’s Deceptions

This posting is an exceprt from a talk I gave recently at the Baltimore Rescue Mission about the deception of Satan.  Our prayer is that it serves as a reminder to us all that, as Christians, we are engaged in a spiritual battle with the devil.  We can give thanks to God because we have Jesus Christ leading us into battle as our Commander and Defender.

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 I’m going to begin by reading the opening verses of Genesis Chapter 3.  It’s the familiar story about Eve and that piece of fruit – but you know, the Bible never calls it an apple.  As I read it, listen to what Satan does and for how he gets Eve to follow him instead of God.  What the Devil did to Eve back in the Garden of Eden, he still wants to do to all of us today.

 Gen 3: 1-6 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ “You will not surely die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.  

 Satan gets to us by raising doubts in our minds…making us question what’s right & what’s wrong.  Satan told Eve nothing would change if she disobeyed God and instead obeyed him.  Satan asked, “Did God really say You must not eat from any tree in the garden?”  But, you know, that’s not what God said — God said Adam & Eve could eat from every tree except one.  God also said if Adam & Eve disobeyed, they “shall surely die.”  But Satan told her, “You will not surely die.”  He directly contradicted God’s Words — and Eve started listening to what the Devil was saying.

 God tells us in the New Testament – in the gospel of John – that Satan is “the father of all lies.”  Now, have you ever noticed how good liars always throw in a little truth to make the lie more effective?  If Satan didn’t mix in a little grain of truth with his lies, he wouldn’t be the “King of the Liars.”  The Devil is more cunning than any fox & craftier than any con man – that’s what makes him so dangerous. 

 God tells us in 2 Corinthians “the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety.”  He knows how to get to us…where we’re most vulnerable.  Eve looked at the fruit, saw that it was desirable, and wanted what it promised – to be like God.

 And we’re the same way today:  we see, we want, and so we do!  The formula for disobedience hasn’t changed.  We know something’s wrong, and yet we still listen to someone else’s arguments for doing it.  Satan got Eve to listen to his argument – he planted seeds of doubt in her mind about God’s Truth.   She looked at the fruit for awhile, thought about eating it – and played it over in her mind.  And then what happened?  It started to look very appealing to her.

 The Bible says, “When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it.” 

 How many times in our minds do we play around with sin – thinking about it — before we actually do it?  God tells us the consequences of that are deadly — the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).  And the kind of death God has in view here is an eternity separated from Him in a place called Hell.  We need to ask ourselves: is the little bit of pleasure we might get from sinning worth that infinite price?   Would you give away everything you own for one tasty cookie?  Would it be worth it?

 Look at everything Adam & Eve had – heaven on earth.  God provided them with everything they needed.  Satan enticed Eve’s attention away from all of God’s good provisions & instead got her focused on her desires. The rest, as they say, is history. But Satan’s assault on the human race didn’t stop with Adam & Eve – he’s still trying to raise doubts today…doubts about the goodness of God – and doubts about the badness of sin. 

 Here’s what Satan does: he wants us to see sin as something good that a bad God doesn’t want us to have.  The Devil’s lie has always been: “Sin isn’t bad and God isn’t good.”  But that’s all it is: a lie!  We’re told everyday, “If it feels good, do it!”  And sin often feels good.  We live in bodies that lust after sin in all its ugly forms – drugs, alcohol, sex, lying, cursing, you-name-it.  If we give in to our natural desires – and to Satan’s temptations – then we’ll be able to think of 100 different reasons why it’s OK to disobey God in this or that area of our life.

 “It’s not so bad if I do a little drugs or get myself drunk”

 “It’s not so bad if I look at pornography – that’s not really cheating”

 “It’s not so bad if I fib a little to someone if it means they’ll give me money”

 “It’s not so bad if I cuss a little every now and then”

 God tells us that sin always has consequences – but Satan tells us what he told Eve: fugetaboutit! How eager we seem sometimes to forget what God has said about the consequences of sin. 

 Maybe you’re thinking, “Come on now…does sin always have negative consequences?”  Well God’s answer to that is a loud YES: the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).  And there’s never an exception to this – you see, Satan’s great lie is that sin is fun. 

 As long as we look at our sin as being fun & not having any effect on our lives, we’ll never gain victory.   Satan wants to entice us away from God – like a molester on the street luring children to his car.  He’s the father of all lies, and his road always leads to the same place: death.  In and of ourselves – on our own – we can’t outwit the Devil.  He loves it when we try.  So the bad news is: we can’t out-smart him.  But the good news is that we don’t have to – because Jesus has already overcome Satan & defeated him.

 So, my question for you is this: who are you listening to?  Whose call do you hear?

 Is it Christ’s as He beckons you to trust completely in Him to receive His gift of eternal life, or are you listening to Satan’s lies and believing all of his deceptions?  Remember, God has told us that the wages of our sin is death…but God’s gift to us is eternal life.  Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” 

 The one true way is Christ  – not Satan’s deceitful paths.

 The one source of all truth is Christ – not Satan’s unending lies. 

 And only in Christ will we find life – all Satan and sin can offer us is eternal death

 To God Be The Glory!

Additional Thoughts About Annihilation

It’s very difficult to keep track of a moving target, and we pity those who are being led astray by teachers proclaiming false doctrines.  Their foundation quite literally shifts like the sand.   

HC: The Bible does not teach annihilation. That is not taught in the Bible. When the Bible uses language like ashes, or burning, or I’ll remember them no more, or whatever, God is not speaking about annihilation. There are too many passages in the Bible that would make that an impossible idea. There are too many passages in the Bible that speak about everlasting damnation, that say that “the worm dieth not,” that say, “there is weeping and gnashing of teeth,” that speak about eternal torment, and so on and so on.  

But as God speaks about hell, and the wrath of God, and the terrible condition that will prevail, we must remember He’s talking about a condition that’s outside of time, that’s outside of our ability to really fathom, because we don’t know what eternity is. We don’t know what it is to be without any blessing whatsoever fromGod. We have no idea about these things, because these are not part of our experience in this world. 

But God does give us word pictures, of burning and of ashes, and of worms that do not die, and so on, outer darkness, and a lake of fire, and so on. God gives us these word pictures in order to indicate to us the awfulness, the dreadfulness of hell. And yet, as He gives all of this, there’s no question at all that He talks about eternal damnation. It’s not something that is annihilation. Annihilation is just not taught in the Bible. If you might find a number of verses, if you grouped those together and took them out of the Bible, without letting the rest of the Bible be a commentary on them, you could find verses that might seem to teach annihilation. 

CALLER: Well, we are told what eternity means, as far as the devil and all his subjects are concerned. Sodom and Gomorrah were burned with everlasting fire. Sodom and Gomorrah are in the bottom of the Dead Sea, and they are not burning now. No place is there perpetual fire. 

HC: Oh, I know. But remember that Sodom ant Gomorrah have not come to an end. The peoples of Sodom and Gomorrah have ceased to exist momentarily on the face of the earth, but they will be raised on the last day. And their damnation is not complete. Just because we see them destroyed by fire back 4,000 years ago, that doesn’t mean that that’s the end of their damnation. 

CALLER: I agree with you there, but I’m just referring to the term everlasting. And there’s another thing that brings up the same thought, what is the definition of everlasting? 

HC: You see, we don’t even have to struggle with that. If you read Revelation14, for example, God says there in verse 10, speaking about the unsaved, “The same shall drink the wine of the wrath of God which is poured out without mixture into the cup of His indignation. And he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.” And notice:“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up forever and ever. And they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” 

Or again, we read in Revelation 22, where it’s talking about those who are in the New Heaven and the New Earth, which of course is going on eternally. And it says in verse 15 of Revelation 22: “For without are the dogs and sorcerers and whoremongers and murderers and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” In other words, they continue having existence, but they are not a part of the New Heaven and the New Earth. 

And there are other phrases of this nature in the Bible that assure us that hell is eternal. It is not annihilation. Now many people want to believe in annihilation.Perhaps they want to believe it because they are not really certain of their salvation. And after all, if I’m annihilated, that finally is not so bad because then I have no conscious existence. I may be missing Heaven, but I don’t know that I’m missing it, and there is certain peace in death. 

But that is a figment of our imagination. That is not the wrath of God. That isn’t the way that God portrays His wrath. It is not to cease to have conscious existence. It’s to cease to be under any blessing of God. When Christ hung on the cross,: He said, “My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?” and that’s hell. And no human being has ever experienced being totally forsaken of God.

Jeff & Cindy speaking again…a keen observation is made above – an observation that’s ironic given recent events.  It was said, “Annihilation is just not taught in the Bible. If you might find a number of verses, if you grouped those together and took them out of the Bible, without letting the rest of the Bible be a commentary on them, you could find verses that might seem to teach annihilation.” 

And to that we must say AMEN. 

To God Be The Glory!