NEW UPDATE: If you are a follower of Harold Camping or a listener of Family Radio, please see the posting for 13 November 2009.
“This Insight is about Harold Camping.
One of the saddest chapters in the history of the church has been the false doctrine of Harold Camping, a broadcaster whom God used mightily to turn many people to the truth for several years. Mr. Camping, however, has now turned aside from biblical teaching and is leading people away from the living church.
James R. White’s book entitled Dangerous Airwaves is a clear expose of Mr. Camping’s perverse biblical methodology. He shows how Camping uses an allegorical method of interpreting the Scriptures. His method makes his followers entirely dependent on him in order to understand the Bible because he alone knows the meaning of the biblical text.
Any church that has had people leave because of Camping’s teachings should have several copies of James White’s book on hand for study by church leadership and by other members. White concludes by helping churches prepare to receive those who have left because of Camping’s teaching back into the church. White believes that over time, they will see how corrupt Camping’s teaching is. They will then repent and return, and when that happens the church should be ready to receive them.
An example of Mr. Camping’s bizarre interpretation of the Bible is the way he handles John 21. In that passage, Jesus tells his disciples to throw their net on the right side of the boat because they will find fish there. The disciples do and take a huge catch of fish the boat could not take on board do it towed the net to the shore. And this passage, according to Camping, signals the end of the church age.
He comes to this conclusion on the basis of his allegorical interpretation of the Bible. He declares that the boat refers to the church, and since the fish could not be taken into the boat, the Bible is telling us that the time will come when people will be saved outside the church, not in it. And, says Camping, that time is now.
On the basis of allegorical interpretation of this kind, Mr. Camping now tells his followers that they should leave the church (even churches that still remain somewhat good), they should not use the sacraments of baptism and the Lord’s Supper, and they should gather in fellowships with other believers and listen to his station and to his teaching.
It is incredible that a person would use the type of interpretation James R. White describes to reject so many of the fundamental teachings of Scripture. The Bible contradicts the idea that the church will outlive its usefulness and God will reject it. The last book of the Bible, Revelation, says this: “The Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come!’” And who is the bride? The church is described as the bride of Christ in the Bible. Children in Sunday School know that. Here at the very end of time, the Holy Spirit and the bride, which is the church, are together calling people to repentance and faith.
There are hundreds, likely thousands of churches right now that are dismayed as people who had been attending have discontinued doing so. These are people who often have been the most dedicated members of the church, attending prayer meetings and Bible study groups. What an unspeakable sadness this is! And it is happening because one man refuses to receive correction from his brothers and insists on interpreting the Bible as if it is a codebook and he alone knows the code.
Religious leaders are very dangerous people. It is essential that Christian leaders who know the Bible well are always supervised by a broader body. Anyone who feels called to the ministry of the Word of God is obligated to insure that his teaching will be true by submitting to those who continually examine his teaching. No single individual may ever set himself up as the last word on biblical teaching.
Camping refuses to receive counsel from anyone. Those who are distressed by what he is doing will benefit greatly from the counsel James R. White gives in his book Dangerous Airwaves.”
December 17, 2007 at 7:48 pm |
Is Joel Nederhood that guy who had a TV show called “Faith 20″ about 20 years ago? I enjoyed watching his show. He reminded me of the professor on Gilligan’s Island.
December 17, 2007 at 8:22 pm |
This article is from the former Family Radio is Wrong website and is really old and so is the book Dangerous Airwaves. James R. White came out with the book within months after the end of the church age teaching began being heard in 2002. It’s been about 6 years now, and so much information has has been revealed by the Holy Spirit in the Bible since then, it’s astounding.
“But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, [even] to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. ” Daniel 12:4
December 17, 2007 at 8:39 pm |
Sorry, i shouldn’t have posted the Gilligan’s Island comment, but that’s what i remember most about him.
January 31, 2008 at 4:38 pm |
The heart is deceitful and above all despeartely wicked…who can know it. Indeed we are living in that time when people are calling good evil and evil good. That strong delusion is upon us causing many of us to believe a lie. I will take my chances with the word of God rather than the word of man. Let God be true and every man a LIAR.
October 12, 2008 at 10:27 pm |
I ‘ve been with Family Radio for over 10 years. I have see all that Harold is. He is a faithful Bible teacher and can’t do anything else. I’ve seen him wrong, I’ve seem him correct himself, I’ve seen him understand, bring to light many ideas that do nothing but make sense, can’t argue, just fits. I’ve raised my children with GOD in view. Just yesterday, this is something my Son sent me,:
“id like to thank you for ruining my day with your bigoted nonsense and by the way: god is not coming in 2011 because he doesnt exsist, not because you could have interpreted a holy text wrong. keep waiting, i guess ill have to continue my life while you do so.
this whole fissure in the family is thick with the stench of failure. i blame harold. i blame your zealot-like persona. and i blame mom’s blind faith in whatever you say. i miss you guys, i really do. I tried to make this shit work. someday you will see that.”
All I told him to get this response was “If you don’t believe in GOD, lets not discuss it anymore. That won’t stop us from praying for you, lets just not discuss it.”
I am amazed but not supprised because this “Son against Father” is for told in the Bible. We live in a world that is getting more and more wicked by the hour. There are things going on that never in my memory could have or would have happened.
If you want to seek the truth, READ the BIBLE. Pray for wisdom, leave your self pride at the door. Pray GOD that he forgive you and ask that he save you. I don’t believe there is anything else more important in your life now that we are almost there.
October 22, 2008 at 3:56 am |
Christ said to the institutional church:
“Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? It is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.” (Mt.5:13)
To be saved is to be eternally “salted.” Saved individuals cannot again be lost.
Institutions can be infiltrated and turned to fables, thus becoming desolate (savorless) and cast off.
The Father and Son ARE the temple. Worship therein.
(Rev.21:22; Isa.40:9; Eph.1:6; Mt.24:3,15&16; Ps.121:1, 123:1 Christ=mountains or hills; Jude 4; Rev.13:7, 18:4, 20:9; 2Tim.4:3&4)
For 27 Yrs. (I’m 68) I steadfastly declared what I just said about Eternal Security to be a doctrine of the Devil. With one sermon God turned 27 years of “Christian religion” into Christianity, which is…”The praise of the glory of his grace” (Eph. 1:6).
By “Christian religion” I mean salvation attempted by merit…trying to live the Christian life as a “cause” rather than the “effect” of salvation. Disfunctional obedience, if you will.
Arminians will cater to the book of James, thinking it more nearly validates what they naturally consider obedience to be…human responsibility for my salvation. That was exactly my conviction. I was ever so sincere, but mistaken.
Calvinists would more nearly emphasize the book of Romans… seeing Christ’s perfect work (obedience) “imputed” to our bankrupt spiritual accounts.
Remember this: James and Paul were not teaching different gospels. They were not at each others throat. James extended the right hand of fellowship to Paul (Gal.2:7-9) knowing full well what Paul was teaching, and James, Peter and John were in agreement with Pauls teaching. Paul in Romans is stressing the “cause” of salvation (acquittal), not innocence from, or of, our sins. We’re still guilty after salvation (acquittal), but “dead” with christ to that sins continued guilt (Rom.6:2). How’s THAT for a cause for joy?(Gal.5:22-26). It gets better. We’re also resurrected with him, and seen by God to already be seated with Christ in heaven. That’s how sure it is. More certain than yesterdays sunrise (Eph.2:1-10; Rom.6:1-14).
Please, if you do not understand the meaning of the word “imputed”, please take a few moments and look it up. Sincerely pray to God to help you understand its meaning relating to the plan of salvation.
Two other words are very important…”justification” (salvation) and “sanctification.” Notice the relationship of salvation to justification at 2Thessalonians 2:13. ‘Salvation’ comes *through* ’sanctification.’
A saved persons “holiness” is actually the “imputed” righteousness of Christ’s sinless life to our still sinful, bankrupt, spiritual accounts. The soul is sanctified while still in imperfection. Now, we hate the sin we once bragged about. When we slip up we admit it to God in prayer, forsake it and rejoice that Jesus is acting as our lawyer in heaven (1 Jn.2:1). That reality is our guarantee or “seal.” The KJV of the Bible says at Eph.4:30, that God has put you on Lay-away, and has promised to finish the job when he returns and reunites your new body with your previously justified soul/spirit.
Notice one other thing about 2 Thes.2:13…God chose you, not the other way around. The pot does not choose the potter. Check it out again at John 15:16; Gal.4:9; Eph.1:4. Now make a game out of it, and see how many other verses you can find that, in effect, say the same thing.
“Freewill” has been taught for at least 220 yrs. since Charles Finney (1792-1875)a “former” Freemason (Luciferian), introduced that heresy against Holy Spirit’s
ministry of the inner call, to apply the ministry of our outer call, to another of God’s previously chosen (elect) eternal family (Rom. 8:29&30). Finney came up with such heresies as alter calls and freewill, just to name two, thereby playing on emotion, as opposed to reason or knowledge of God’s nature in salvations plan. These “new methods” were designed to “close the deal” on yet another tithing church member. Salesmanship and psychology, not Christian faith.
Here, in seeking a stopping point, is a scriptural “proof” text that is dynamite for the truth of Eternal Security. You, apart from Holy Spirit joining your effort at any given moment, will never convince another soul, but if nothing else, you’re laying foundation for another child of God to build on. The scripture is Rev. 20:6&14. The “resurrection” mentioned is the Born Again experience. We were all still-born spiritually in Adams sin. That is the first death, and the reason why we must be Born Again (spiritually). It, like the 1st. resurrection is spiritual. The first resurrection is the “born again” experience (Rev.20:6). Now, vrs. 6 plainly tells us that those who are spiritually “resurrected”, not those who try to “live the Christian life” to merit salvation, that on such as these, the second death HATH NO POWER.
Now, what is the second death? Look at vrs. 14. When you are given the spiritual “light”, “ears” and “eyes” to understand this reality, my friend, your going to be on shouting ground already. You ready? “The lake of fire…is the second death.” Read it for yourself, and give God the glory! What you have just read is that if you have been saved, not if you try to merit it, but if God has chosen you for the gift of salvation, you’re “in like flint”, mister. Sin can never again kill you, and now you’ll find that sin has lost so much of the fun it used to be. Remember, you don’t get the salvation (justification) without the sanctification (holiness). You’re not perfect, and will not be until Christ returns, but “Something happened, and now I know…He touched me and made me whole.”
We’re made out of the stuff (sin). We were coneived in it, and born in the blooming mess, but praise be to God…He’s annuled its effect on the eternal destiny of his chosen few.(Ps.51:5).
God “imputes” Adams sin to us. You don’t like that, you say? Makes no difference, for it’s true. But get this! By the same principle, “imputation” the Father attributes Jesus’ righteousness to us whom he saves. Maybe you think you didn’t deserve Adams sin debt. Well, you’re a lot better person than me, if you think you deserve Christ’s payment for your, and my, stinking, sinful lives. He tells us what kind of reality-check he’s looking for in us at Luke 18:10-14.
It’s sad but true. Many people, myself included, who have lived pretty moral type lives from childhood often have far more difficulty coming to grips with the thought that God is not impressed with our self-image (righteousness).
I had to meet a man who had wallowed in the “mud” of sin and laughed about it until his late forties before I came to realize God saw not a pennies worth of difference between us. A sot drunk, he made my skin crawl. God appears to have forgiven him much, and now I realize my debt was no less repulsive than his…in God’s sight. Surely God was pleased with my “clean” lifestyle, social rank and good family name. Wrong! But I’ve never been drunk a day in my life. So what? Like me, you may have never been drunk in your life, but that doesn’t commend either of us to God’s own sinless perfection. We must compare ourselves to him to see ourselves as we are.
The closer the apostle Paul got to God, the more aware he became of the sorry dog he was in God’s estimation. Check brother Paul out at Rom.7:18; Eph.3:8; 1Tim.1:15. Human pride doesn’t “cut-it” with the Holy God (Proverbs 6:16-35…emphasis on 16-19).
He who is forgiven much, loves much (Luke7:36-50). It’s a beautiful story. Read it, please.
If I could take just another minute to let Al, who wrote on Oct. 12, ‘08 know that he’ll have a new prayer partner on his sons behalf.
I, like C.S.Lewis the British professor and author, was an atheist for 16 Yrs. from my sixteenth to thirty second year. I have cursed God worse than you’ve ever heard anyone curse anyone else. I’ve seen former military tough guys cringe and take off when they heard me shout the obscenities in God’s face that I have uttered. The rewards I’ve thrown away in our heavenly home now cause me concern to meet my savior, but my savior I believe Jesus to be. I wanted to believe, but it was all just too fantastic for an intelligent guy to take seriously. I absolutely hated Christians, and had developed as much hate for Jews, on the basis of having worked for too many of them in Atlanta, Ga. Thank God, he kept ever so narrow a crack in the door of life open for even me. Thank God, the hate is gone. If God is dead, who, pray tell is this living in me, cause I promise you…it isn’t me. I know me, and I’m just not my favorite person. There’s hope Al. Two are better than one (Eccl.4:9-12), so if you don’t mind me coming along side you on our knees, perhaps we can share the joy of entreating the living God on behalf of a fellow sinner.
An old saying is: “If you can’t talk to men about God, talk to God about men.” The hour has grown late, but not too late for this privilege.
The man God used to convert me from Christian religion to Christianity…Dr. Raymond C. Ortlund Jr., senior pastor of First Presbyterian Church; Augusta, Ga. had a way with brevity in closing his sermons with prayer. One of my favorites was simply this:
Heavenly Father,
May your glory…
be our only desire.
Amen.
loncrawley@bellsouth.net
P.S. Concerning the book of Romans. Please give the first eight (8) chapters a new chance in your life, if you hate eternal security as much as I did. No other book of the Bible lays out exactly what salvation is, and is not, the way God did it through Paul in this book. Believe it or not…God, not the Devil wrote it, and you’ll never know greater joy and peace of inner soul if you happen to be one of the “elect” to whom God chooses to reveal that truth. Pray before you read.
An evangelist told his son: “If you only have three minutes to read your Bible in the morning, then read for one minute, and think about what you read for two.” Isn’t that great advice, you seniors out there?(1Tim. 4:13-16).
October 27, 2008 at 12:50 pm |
Jeff and Cindy,
I hope everything is okay with both of you, I’ve noticed that you haven’t made a comment or posting in months. I’m just concerned. Anyway, I thought it might be nice if you did a posting on the rapture. I thought it might be a good subject to write a post about and it might develop questions and dialogue.
October 28, 2008 at 11:47 pm |
HAS THE CHURCH AGE ENDED?…THINK AGAIN
I well remember my first reaction to having heard someone suggest that the church age had ended. Quite frankly I found the thought, and the audacity to express it, somewhat repugnant. I’m trying to remember my initial reaction, for I never dreamed, those few short years ago, that anything so alien sounding would ever possibly hold any sway over my traditional values, which quite probably mirror your own. At first glance the concept seemed to take on Draconian (cruel, severe, dragon like) aspects, triggering flight impulses in my subconsciousness. In my first letter to Family Radio I expressed my initial misgivings on the subject, but also mentioned that, in retrospect, what was being taught was not that unlike my personal experiences with institutional church life since 1973.
I was “literally” born and raised in the local Southern Baptist Conventions First Baptist Church, here in the South Eastern U.S. since 1940. From cradle roll to nursery, right through my teens, I was First Baptist all the way. Middle class family, known by one and all, newspaper boy…the whole Mayberry, Waltons Mtn. lifestyle. If anyone ever represented the typical All American Boy image, I humbly submit that I probably fit that slot as well as any of my schoolmates whom I’d describe similarly. We were typical small town, family values, mid ’50’s guys. Dad owned a hardware store and was a building contractor. Mom was the very epitome of a Collier Magazine stay at home housewife. We lived very comfortably.
I “paint this picture” to illustrate that I’m not some radical, off the wall, Rebel Without A Cause…looking for one. I didn’t rock the boat. Family name was treasure, and responsibility and good manners were the order of the day. “Take me home, country road…” “Old times there are not forgotten…” Randy’s Drive In, Teen Town, Cushman motor scooters…Aahhh, mannn! I even had a Model A Ford which all us guys painted our nicknames on…just like the Archie Comic Books.
Three years in the Army with a year and a half in Korea, 15 miles south of the DMZ (‘61-’62)…Self employed…You get the picture.
So what in the world am I doing listening to Harold Camping discuss the end of the church age? Pretty radical stuff, wouldn’t you agree? Small town U.S.A. still does, circa 2008.
Discussing the subject with a friend at his home recently when his wife, in a polite but stressed fashion expressed misgivings about it all. Sensing the need for objectivity in the presence of honest doubt I responded to her mild exasperation, and her search for expression, by admitting ‘my’ initial negative reaction. I said to her, “It’s offensive, isn’t it?”, to which she immediately expressed agreement. Honest objectivity seemed to defuse the tension of the moment. This certainly is not a topic that people need to be hounded about, especially within a family. If Holy Spirit doesn’t do a work with a family member, then anyone old enough to have children should be experienced enough by now to know that as a close relative, we (I) of all people am not going to be taken kindly. This is a very personal matter, and patient, loving kindness, wisdom and restraint are essential to the homes stability. Kenny Rogers’ song “The Gambler” offers some very good advice from a secular point of view.
Mans outer call, absent Holy Spirits inner call is best voiced gingerly. It took me some three (3) years to come to grips, before I finally believed what I was hearing with sufficient personal conviction to take that first public stand. It was a moment of inner emotion for me. I thought to myself…”Dare I say this?”, and yet, personal experiences and observations over a thirty year period were stirring within me for expression. It’s like having been an atheist and saying that first “Blessing” at meal time in the presence of several companions, when you, for the first time, in halting fashion finally screw up your courage enough to say: “In the name of Jesus we pray. Amen.” It can be a moment of trembling, timidity, release and tears of joy and/or humiliation for having been unenlightened and silent so long.
One can hardly maintain consciousness in that moment, but once it’s past, and the ice is broken, courage of conviction begins to grow unto a mature disciple on the subject. It simply has to be your own conviction. You can’t follow the Shepherds leading on this one, based on someone elses convictions. This is coming to grips with Great Tribulation issues, and no one should dare be flippant in the face of such consequences.
I’ve got three hand written pages of personal notes and scripture references before me, and how I’d like to share them all in this one sitting, but loathe to abuse this web sites gracious privilege, or the readers indulgence. Just a response or two to comments expressed in the subject posted, and maybe I’ll be permitted to elaborate later.
I have the greatest respect for Joel Nederhoods decades of ministry, and God has certainly used Joel to glorify himself, the Father, in my life. I, in this moment, with tears, thank God for his investment in Joels life, and Joel for his return on that investment. I’m sorry on the one hand, and hopeful on the other that our different perceptions at this moment in time might work for the greater glory of God as we proceed.
In the third paragraph from the bottom of the above article this reference is made to people who are leaving local congregations:
“These are people who often have been the most dedicated members of the church…”
May I observe that THAT fits exactly with the whole tenor of the scriptures.
We know that the church has ever been composed of wheat and tares. Perhaps some of you remember Ben Hayden’s program “Changed Lives” out of Chattanooga, Tenn. He was discussing, on one occasion, how his years of ministry had made it clear to himself what a wide variety of reasons motivate people to seek church membership. Your own imagination and experience will probably produce a very similar list. The point is that out of the whole assembly the likelyhood is that a minority constitute the holy seed, or as Isaiah has it at Isa.1:9 “A very small remnant.” Only the few will hear and follow the Shepherd when and wheresoever he leads. These specifically are they who for decades now have been marginalized as the institutions administrators have pursued Charles Finney’s (1792-1875) “New Methods” which constitute nothing more than psychological and sales techniques to “close the deal” that produces another tithing church member. They, as I, have spoken up on the need to preserve the sanctified nature of “The House of Prayer” as Jesus defined it, but have been drowned out by the socially elite that have been catered to until, at last, they are in full control of the administration of the institution.
The elect to whom Joel refers, and whose loss he laments, have resisted the introduction of vending machines, ping pong tables, stages for rock music, teen night club settings, and finally, full blown gymnasiums and the emphasis shift to entertainment and recreation. Personal salvation notwithstanding, the educational, business, economic and political elite in the community have administrative control of the church. The hangers-on dearly love to be led by, and in social contact with the elite. A pragmatic, humanistic approach toward administration is the natural result. ‘Prayerful faith’ and ‘God’s will’ are too remote and vague…of too uncertain an outcome to rely upon in church decisions to adopt or reject such-and-such a policy. This IS the twenty first century you understand? Holy Spirit has, like myself, been shown the door, and when caught moving too slowly…given the boot. I speak from personal and observed experience, locally and globally. Perhaps Elijah received something of the same comfort we today receive when we hear of our spiritual kin around the globe who have had the same experiences.
In the same paragraph Joel says something that boggles the mind.
I don’t know it from personal knowledge, but have recently read that Harold has been affiliated in the past with the Christian Reformed Church in which Dr. Nederhood remains a pastor. I refer not to the same congregation, but denomination. Feelings run deep when denominational divisions occur, and I wonder if that is the reason for Joels passion in the instance of Harold Camping’s withdrawal?
Joel says in the same paragraph:
“And its happening because ONE MAN (emphasis mine) refuses to receive correction from his brothers and insists on interpreting the Bible as if it is a codebook and he alone knows the code.”
My, my…God speaks of confounding the mighty, and sadly that statement seems to belie confounded thought. With the magnitude of what is taking place globally, across denominational lines, does that charge seem to you a leap of logic? That a single, relatively obscure individual, lacking national celebrity (take your own poll of the man on the street), might have that kind of clout seems akin to *Henny Penny hysterically ‘kicking up dust’ because the sky is falling. The more logical deduction, it seems to me, is that the exodus of the remnant is the natural consequence of having been marginalized so long. The encompassing and overcoming of the saints referred to at Rev.13:7&20:9 relates, not to their loss of personal salvation, but to their having been marginalized, silenced and, in cases, actually kicked out of the local congregations. Their obedience to the call to “Depart Out” (Lu.21:21), therefore, is as natural as an infants birth in full term. The infant does not birth itself. Birth happens to the infant, the natural consequence of due season. If Harolds outer call represents a mothers “breaking water”, the internal conditions are the cause of the discharge, not some outside agent. This natural birthing process is more nearly the work of God than the fault of “one” man.
* 1. Google: “Henny Penny.”
2. Click on: “The sky is falling” – Wikipedia
3. Dig that Buddhist fable for yourself.
Rush Limbaugh has celebrity, and has lamented that he has an audience of millions daily tuned to his political talk show, still his effect on the body politic remains nonexistent. Harold Camping on the other hand is accused of single handedly disassembling the very body of Christ. I don’t think so Joel, I’m sorry.
The fifth chapter of Acts, beginning at verse 12 relates a very telling event. Holy Spirit was working overtime through the apostles of Christ, when the institutional administrators of the temple became filled with indignation (vrs.17). In Acts 5:27 Christ’s apostles were hauled before the council (The like “brothers” to whom Joel wants Harold to submit). In testifying of the closing events in Christ’s ministry the apostles say at vrs.32: “And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him (obedience as an effect of salvation, not its cause).
Now, at vrs.34 a doctor of the law, Gamaliel, gave the council some good advice that perfectly applies to this rift Joel won’t turn lose. At verse 38 he says: “And now I say to you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this councel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it, lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. 40: And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41: And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer for his name.”
I can’t say he hasn’t, but I personally don’t recall ever hearing Harold ridicule Joel personally. I haven’t yet been directed to websites where Family Radio posts exposes about Joel, or any other individual. Regretably, this looks like a very one sided affair, and one can hardly keep from thinking that the best testimony to the gospel is being diverted with this focus on personality. Principles are perhaps better addressed than personalities. Don’t tell us what to think, but give us the information you think should lead us to our own conclusions. Obviously, doctrinal diversity is going to effect whether a particular scripture actually says what you think it says.
Both the traditional precepts as well as the “New things” (Isa.42:9) God reserves to himself both to do and to reveal from time to time from the time of the prophet Daniel (Dan.12:9), are to be given their due consideration. I find in my personal exchanges with pastors and deacons, across denominational divides, very little, if any, interest or objectivity concerning those “New Things” which God has promised to reveal to his people here at the end of time, I have encountered willful ignorance, ridicule, and dismissal. And they wonder why the elect have had enough of it. “Drag out Harold, the scapegoat!
These charges have become just this viseral (emotional) and devoid of objectivity. The power brokers are logically primarily interested in their vested interest, and minimizing the influence of anyone they deem a threat to their investment in education etc., just as the authorities actions in Acts 5, were a predictable human response. In a time of fierce competition for tithing members, the pragmatics of economics is probably not an incidental motive in painting the “enemy” (God?) black. Unspoken for sure, but incidental? Probably not.
I tried for approx. eighteen years to join a Mennonite church during my stint with Arminianism. I was repeatedly asked: “Are you now willing to lay all on the altar of sacrifice, and accept whatever the council (brotherhood) has for you?” My answer ever had to be “No”, for had a woman come to me and said: “I believe God has saved me, but I don’t believe this devotional head covering is necessary to my salvation”, I would have agreed with her, but the church would have derided her with charges of lifting her light up against the council. The damnation of “pride” would have relegated her to the level of the lowest demon of hell, and she would have had that doom held over herself until she repented. Thank God the Bible and the Holy Spirit prevented my acceptance into what I thought I so desperately wanted. Repeatedly I heard; “there’s safety in the multitude of the council.” Whose safety?
Human institutional authority is like a warm sweater on a cold night to so many, but we wind up with a second “advocate” between ourselves and the Father, and that’s idolatry. We set out to worship God through Christ, and we wind up having to go through human (therefore sinful) authority to get to God in Christ. The devil is shrewd and will sneak around behind you and come in the back door. Not, mind you, that these folk are deliberately plotting, but fallen human power, authority and control take on idolatrous proportions, especially when they feel threatened with, God forbid, Free Thought! We, as the Galatians, so easily get diverted from the simplicity of freedom in Christ, to slavery to church rules, vows, sacraments etc. and there is no atoning merit in any of it. There is plenty of guilt and slavery. It’s idolatry, folks. The message is “Come to Christ, not come to church.” You, the Bible and the Holy Spirit make a majority. BEWARE INSTITUTIONAL IDOLATRY!
Well, there is so very much scripture that needs to be , and is at my fingertips to be shared, but I’ve already stretched the limits of good manners toward the proprietors of this website, as well as your, the readers, patience…that is unless you love the study and meditation on God’s word as much as I. The fact that you’ve read this far indicates we may very well be kindred spirits. Good to know I’ve got company.
Fellow members of that church built “without hands” that professional institutionalist deplore for its lack of susceptibility to earthly, political regulation and financial “taxation” (tithes). Nobody exacts a living from religion in the universal, spiritual church. The wealth and corruption associated with churchianity is forcefully condemned, especially in Rev. 17, 18, 19.
“Come out of HER, MY PEOPLE, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive no of her plagues.” (Rev.18:4).
Where have HIS PEOPLE been for the last 2,000 years but in the institutional church? “Her” implies the “Bride” of Christ.
Wasn’t taxation (tithing) a requirement for the payment of sins debt? You know better than that. Don’t ever think that your financial sacrifice puts you in cahoots with God. Only Christ’s blood and death could do that, and anything beyond that is in danger of becoming idolatry. Don’t be a dunce.
By the way, speaking of dunces, you may or may not be aware that virtually all churches baptize and ordain members of the Masonic Lodge which is a religion that worships Lucifer. They’ll deny it of course, and most of them are probably ignorant of the fact that that is exactly what they are being deceived into doing. Want to know what one of their most significant leaders had to say about Christianity, and Christ’s apostles in particular? Albert Pike, a top mason said in “Morals And Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Rite of Freemasonry” Page 732; Para.2)
“The dunces (apostles) who led primitive (original) Christianity astray, by substituting faith for science, reverie for experience, the fantastic for the reality; and the inquisitors who for so many ages waged against Magism (Witchcraft) a war of extermination, have succeeded in shrouding in darkness(With the true light of 1Jn.2:8?) the ancient discoveries of the human mind (corrupt according to Christ); so that we now grope in the dark(the light of Christ) to find again the key of the phenomena of NATURE. But all natural phenomena depend on a single and immutable law, represented by the philosophal stone and its symbolic form, which is that of a cube. This law expressed in the Kabala by the number 4, furnished the Hebrews with all the mysteries of their divine Tetragram.”
Does that make Christ the Dunce of Dunces? According to Pike, that is exactly what Jesus is. Now that, and a lot more that can’t be discussed in polite company, is what Freemasonry is, and churches are full of it. They not only are baptised members, but many are ordained as pastors and deacons. If you only had the advantage of my 26 years of study from their own books you’d flee the corrupted church the way Jesus told us to at the end (Mt. 24:3,15&16). Believe me, or believe Jesus, you don’t want to be around it when Christ’s wrath is unleashed. Fear God, not men. How do church goers sleep nights after sitting in that kind of flagrant disrespect for Christ, week after week, and never raising the issue of impending eternal wrath and destruction? I can’t do it. I won’t do it. I’ll separate myself as Christ commands and witness to their approaching doom without the gates, where Christ suffered(Heb.13:12-15).
Actually, I don’t have to separate myself any longer. Christmass eve of ‘06 a Masonic deacon and his enraged Dr. pastor physically evicted me from their “den of thieves” for discouraging the observance of the Roman Catholic pagan holiday…Christ-mass.
Twenty first century church goers think it is a sin NOT to celebrate Christmass.
Sixteenth century Protestant Reformers KNEW it was a sin TO do so, and forbade their congregations.
One last abbreviated reference to Joel’s charges against Harold and I’ll try to let you go. I’m as bad as Dr. John MacArthur about not being able to find the stopping point.
I “literally” can’t believe that a man whom I hold in such regard as I do Dr. Joel Nederhood would lambaste the absolute necessity of interpreting the allegorical truth behind the multitude of figurative and poetic speech incorporated throughout the Bible.
The last sentence of the third paragraph on page one (1) above reads: “his (Campings) method makes his followers (that’s not me, folks) entirely dependent on him to understand the Bible because he alone knows the meaning of the biblical text.”
Now I offer a verse of scripture for consideration. I have no knowledge of Harold having addressed it, but at his age and with his experience, I’m sure he has. On my own, however, with only an ancient high school diploma, and that not worth the paper it’s written on, I’m going to attempt to garner the gospel message from a highly figurative verse…
Eccl.10:1: “Dead flies cause the ointment of the apothecary to send forth a stinking savor.”
It is true that an interpretation that many a 21st. century American would still have trouble understanding is offered in the second part of this verse, but I’m going to pretend it’s not there, for the sake of illustration, and take on part A. all by myself. Allow me this license, please.
Somewhere along life’s way I learned what “Apothecary” meant. Now, substituting “Vaseline” for the word “ointment” and Drug Store for Apothecary, I’m going to interpret this allegorical remark to imply that the purity of the Vaseline I purchased at the drug store will be compromised if the lid is left off the jar and flies contaminate it with microscopic organisms.
Now do you honestly think that God is bent out of shape about us always remembering to put the lid securely back on the jar of Vaseline? I hope to the Almighty your answer is not the one I too often encounter.
Wouldn’t you agree it more likely implies that a life well lived for years (a good reputation represented by the Vaseline) can be defiled by an unguarded moment of passion, greed etc. (represented by dead flies)? Straighten me out, Joel. Surely you’re not prescribing a literalistic approach to the spiritual book! Do you really have so little faith in God to enlighten his own? Literalism certainly isn’t illumination.
How about the HYPERBOLE Moses employed in his effort to motivate the people at Deut.1:28? I know literalist who will absolutely stand you down that the phrase: “The cities are great and walled up to heaven” literally means that the city’s walls actually reached heaven.
A retired electrical draftsman asked me a while back what I made of a certain passage referring to a state of heart, in light of recent innovations in heart transplant surgery. I had to observe him cautiously, out of the corner of my eye, to be sure he wasn’t kidding. As the conversation proceeded it was obvious he was serious. Continued association reveals that he is totally non-plused by the spiritual book which he insists must be interpreted literally.
THAT is slavery, and that appears to be what Joel Nederhood and James White are encouraging with their tragic MOCKERY OF THE absolute NEED to gleen the spiritual, gospel, figurative lesson from a book written by an intelligent author who not only understands the figures of speech of any given language, he created them, “for God’s sake!” Perhaps if they can dumb-down their hearers they can maintain church authority (idolatry) over them, and keep the kitty fed. Did you get that? Feed the kitty? By the way…he prefers canned food.
I don’t believe I’m reading this stuff from a Doctor of Theology. THAT, I suppose, IS the answer in the 21st. century.
STOP LITERALIZING THE SPIRITUAL BOOK!
Do you honestly think that Jesus was referring to earthly human relations at Mt.5:25&26 when he spoke of agreeing with an adversary quickly lest you go to prison from which you can’t pay out? For goodness sake, it might be true of human relations, but the significance obviously applies to our relationship to God. HE is the sinners adversary, and the debt of sin Jesus refers to can never be paid by human merit, therefore the lost must pay forever…despite Harolds serious error on that one since 2006. I refer of course to his tragic adoption recently of “Annihilation” of the lost.
That reminds me of another quote: “Only twice in eternity, or the entire universe, can sins penalty be paid: The ancient past or the unbearable future.” (Dr. Raymond C Ortlund Jr.)
Harold’s a very old man. He’s been used mightily, but he’s certainly slipped on annihilation. If we live too long we’ll probably out pervert Harold and Billy Graham both.
Heard any of Billy’s stuff lately? Like Mother Teresa, he’s become aware that the orthodox view of Christ’s atonement as essential for salvation is in error. Do you remember him in effect dodging the issue in advising “W” Bush in a disagreement “W” was having with his mom? I’ve got it on tape. Wasn’t that on a PBS Frontline program? Like “Mother T”, Billy came to realize that, be ye Hindu, Islamic or Christian…the life lived was what was going to get you over, by proving YOUR love of God…some god or the other, take your pick. Remember when it used to be preached the other way around? It was God’s love for his chosen…and he did the choosing. (Gal.1:8&9)
Whom do you see doing the most hurt to God and his cause, Harold or Billy?
Beyond the end, her private paper’s revealed “Mother” didn’t actually even believe God existed, and lamented the darkness of her soul.
I’ve just remembered, I carry a copy of “Mother’s” quote from the 04/19/04 edition of the Augusta (Ga.) Chronicle in my billfold. Here’s the exact quote: “Whether one is Hindu or a Muslim or a Christian, how you live your life is the proof that you are or not fully His.”
If you don’t have Christ on God’s terms you’re not His at any level, let alone FULLY. Merely confessing Jesus to be a grand teacher isn’t what the Bible calls having Christ on the Fathers terms, He’s God and only Savior, or one’s knowledge of His existance is futility. Awareness of anothers existence washes away not one stain of sin’s guilt. We, therefore pray as supplicants, to Him who determines our eternal destiny, for mercy, for acquittal, for all are guilty before Him, and incapable of freeing ourselves of even one sin. We don’t pray for a second chance to do better, cause no one has ever even had a first chance. Chance, and performance don’t lead home. Only what Someone Else has done FOR you, and applies to your bankrupt account is mankinds ONLY hope for eternal rest. His name is Jesus. Sweetest name ever breathed in submission and adoration by any sinner, for all have sinned (Rom.3:23). We don’t “apply” His blood to our own account. That’s “another gospel.” Arminianism is as sincere as a humans capacity for religion gets, but our capacity is woefully inadequate. That focus is in the wrong direction. Reformation unto salvation comes not from an inner search. There’s nothing in us of any merit (Rom.3:12&7:18). Not only can we not let Him into our lives…we can’t keep Him out. If we can’t keep him out, what manner of presumption must we entertain to think we are capeable of acquiring Him on our terms? See the blasphemy of it all? The self-righteousness? Look outside yourself…that’s where your hope lies.
The old saying: “The unexamined life is not worth living” is in total Biblical error. The fact is that it is the examined life that isn’t worth living, for self examination can only reveal corruption and every foul thing. Look to Holy perfection. Look to Jesus, and pray his consideration for your lost estate. Don’t tell Him what your going to do for Him, cause He already knows all your tomorrows, and that you’re not capable of performing your emotional, guilt ridden vows. He on the other hand can and will uphold you unto the day He returns to redeem His lay-away, and it’s His deposit on you (the blood of Christ), not your “interest” in Him that holds the purchase till it (you) are redeemed…just in time for the big feast. You’re the gift he gives himself. It’s His party, and He gives THE gift.
If the Billy Grahams and the Harold Campings can be deceived…Ask yourself if indeed Lucifer must not already have been loosed. And if they, some of the “best” among us, can come under delusion, where is our boast of steadfastness?
Joel has asked: “How can such a thing happen?” While Harold is obviously right about The Church Age, still he’s obviously wrong about Annihilation, and the obvious answer to Joels amazement is simply that Lucifer IS loosed in this little season between The End of the Church Age and the Lords return. THIS IS THE GREAT FALLING AWAY… UNTO TRIBULATION. That’s what separation from God is…Tribulation, and greatly so. Didn’t think you were going to be able to “take it” did you? You see? Even great tribulation is endurable with Christ supporting the elect as He promised to…”Even unto the end of the world” (Mt.28:20).
If Lucifer is loosed as we speak, and it is obvious to the undeceived that he is, then the whole Premillennial theory falls into the disaray which it is destined to experience, being but a fable of the end times (2Tim.4:3&4). With it goes the much fabled and treasured false hope of a pre-tribulation rapture. Notice in the verse below that it is exactly for the very elects benefit that the days of tribulation in which the elect are still on earth, under His protection, as were our fathers in Egypt, for THEIR benefit the days of tribulation are shortened. If they were insulated from it all in heaven, then Mt.24:22 would make no sense at all and would not have been spoken.
Also 2Thess.2:1-3…in vrs.1 speaks of the return of Christ, and our “gathering” unto Him (“enraptured” unto Him). Vrs.3 points out that His return shall not occur before the falling away (tribulation), AND the son of perdition (Lucifer, the Devil) having been revealed.
You see the sequence of events?
1. A falling away from God which is Great Tribulation comes first. (What could be greater tribulation than living in a world of total deception and hateful self-ishness?)
2. The man of sin (The son of perdition…damnation or Hell)..is revealed.
3. “That Day”…the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ…the 2nd. advent…the return of Christ , occurs AFTER the tribulation and the Devils deception or “mask of concealment” is ripped off, exposing him for the pretender and lier he is.
THEN CHRIST RETURNS IN TRIUMPHANT GLORY, for it is He who has brought “these things” to pass, and “His spiritual Bride”… safely through it all and into His HEAVENLY kingdom, not another “thousand” years on this sin cursed earth. Who would need or want THAT anyway? The plan of salvation is complete at that point and absolutely no purpose is served by some fanciful, provisional, political, visible(no faith required) government. The long awaited Heavenly Kingdom of The Father is upon us. All “Israel”, which is made up of elect Jews and elect Gentiles (Hopefully as much as 10% of the whole human race) is thus saved,… for the fulness of the Gentiles coming into salvation IS the saving of ALL “ISRAEL” (Rom.11:25-27).
Notice the grammatical construction of verses25 and 26 of Romans 11. The connecting word, or conjunction “so” in vrs. 26 ties the two thoughts together into a single point. Therefore, what Paul is saying is that the fulness of the Gentiles coming in IS what constitutes “ALL ‘ISRAEL’ being saved.” He realizes that the 10% of national Israels total population that God through Isaiah 6:13 refers to as “The Holy Seed” is “The Substance Thereof”. He also realizes that the lost sheep of the tribe of “Israel” whom God has scattered throughout the world (meaning ELECT Gentiles) are, in God’s sight, truer “Jews”(units of ‘praise’) than mere genetics could ever hope to make anyone. It is the Spiritual ‘Israel’ Paul has in view, or “The New Jerusalem”, the mother of us all, the universal church (Gal.4:26). At Gal. 3:28 God through the same Paul teachs us that: “There is neither Jew nor Greek(Gentile), there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS. Vrs.29: “And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise,”
When Paul says: “Blindness in part is happened to ‘Israel’ “, he is saying that most of national Israel, as is most of the whole earth, is spiritually blind and will be eternally lost.
The saving of “ALL- SPIRITUAL- ISRAEL” is being accomplished by God globally, and…that accomplished, the global “Family of Abraham” constitutes God’s eternal family. Isn’t that beautiful? Amen.
If one understands that the words Temple, Israel, Jerusalem. Judea or Judah etc. are used as external prototypes or symbols or allegories for the N.T. church in God’s progressive revelation of Himself and His will…only then will major portions of the plan of salvation and our chronological location in relation to the 2nd. advent and present tribulation be understood. Remember the warnings against end time FABLES, especially Dispensationalism and Millennialism (2Tim.4:3&4). Remember that God prophesied that at the first advent of Christ the term “Chosen People” would be expanded to global proportions (Prophecy: Isa.65:15; Fulfilment: Acts 11:26). The lost sheep of the tribe of “Israel” therefore refers to anyone in the world who was elected by God from eternity past.
Don’t even get me started on the prolific coverage of that fact throughout both testaments.
The Old Testament was not written for genetic Jews and the New Testament for Gentiles. The Bible is a unified, united single presentation of salvations plan for the universal race of man, God being no respecter of persons (Acts 10:34; Col3:11; Eph.2:14; Gal.3:26-29).
“Jew” means “Praise”, and any redeemed sinner both PRAISES God and EXISTS in his saved condition “To the PRAISE of the GLORYof GOD’S GRACE” (Eph.1:6), for there is no difference in Gods sight (Col.3:11; Eph.2:14) The second coming is the end of the world, and thank God for it! Even so, come, Lord Jesus (Rev.22:20).
Mt.24:21 “For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Mt.24:22 “And except those days should be shortened there should be no flesh saved: BUT FOR THE ELECTS SAKE (who are still on earth, not in heaven) those days (prior to…before the 2nd. coming)…those days SHALL be shortened”
Now you might ask what bearing all this has on the posted article under consideration. Untill you have the nature and extent of salvations plan and the universal gospel properly understood…you remain as perplexed as Joel about Harold, or as non-plused about other personages as Mother Teresa or Billy Graham.
The abomination of desolation is totally misunderstood to be an individual instead of a general state of debauchery (false doctrines and baptised and ordained Devil worshippers…Freemasons…sitting in the congregation where they don’t belong). It is false, non-prescribed religious practices like “Christmass”, along with various false doctrines taught (Freewill, etc. etc.), and true doctrines spurned (Predestination, Election, Ltd. Atonement) that constitute the reign of the abomination of desolation. The battle rages as ever and as ever shall…Lucifer manifesting himself through people. Stop looking for some exotic individual and realize that the corruption of the universal, institutional church takes place within local congregations, and the abominal lies are introduced by Brendas sons, or marys husband or Roberts dad. Some of the corruption is accomplished maliciously and much of it ignorantly. Combined the effect is so obnoxious that God will both spew the spoiled religiosity from His “mouth”and quite literally “bring smoke” on its adherents.
Since he tells us that will be the net worth of the institution upon his return, don’t you think it wise to “shake dust” and obey the Lords command to Depart Out “That ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues?” (Rev. 18:4, 13:7, 20:9 Mt.24:3,15,16,;Ps.121:1, 123:1; Lu.21:21)
You’re not destroying the church of Christ on earth, as you will be charged with, as have I…but rather you’re upholding the integrity of truth and the personal integrity of Christ whose command you are obeying. I was invited to another S.B.C. church recently, and I politely expressed my appreciation for the good intention, but reiterated that in obedience to our Lord’s command I had disassociatd myself from the debauched institution.
The pollster, George Barna estimates millions globally have done so, and regularly we are hearing of the Spiritual Bride of Christ grooming “herself” for the wedding feast at hand.
John 14:15…”If ye love me, keep my commandments.” (Also see 1Jn.5:3)
Mt.8:22…….”…Jesus said…Follow me, and let the dead bury their dead.”
John 6:37…”All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me.”
Logic implies from such scriptures as those above that the institutional church at the second advent will very likely consist only of tares, and no shortage thereof.
It’s not men’s task to dislodge tares (Mt.13:41), but it is his task to separate himself from evil associations…especially those who play church (1Cor.5:9-13…esp. 11; 2Tim.3:1&5; Mk.12:38-40;2Pe. Chp.2)
Many scriptures have been in effect throughout the centuries within the then legitimate institution which continue applicable in the spiritual, universal church of the last days, but with the added significance associated with avoidance of yet another ancestral institutional harlot.
First came the Temple, then Roman Catholism and today the remnant finds itself squared off against the debauched New Testament Church.
From the days of Daniel things reserved for the end times were inconsequential to the Old and New Testament church. The relative short period from the end of the church age to the 2nd. advent is a time unique in the history of mankind, and requires faith, love and courage as Lucifer makes his final onslaught against all righteousness. Being led by the word and Spirit where men have never been led before calls for faith not unlike that of the apostles who had to break with centuries of God instituted cerimonialism, suddenly obsoleted. Many primative (original) Christians died praising the majesty they as a minority had experienced ‘Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt” (Heb11:26). “…Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance that they might obtain a better resurrection.” (Heb.11:35). The whole 11th. chapter of Hebrews will comfort the elect in the days and years ahead.
During the God breathed Protestant Reformation the holy seed were once again called out of their harlot ancestor. Multitudes were tortured and many gave their lives as their first century fathers had done. Heb. 11 had to be a source of great encouragement to their generation.
And now, at the “time of the end” we’re positioned to experience perhaps the most glorious era of church history post Eden. John F. Kennedy said: “…To some generations much is given. Of other generations much is expected. THIS generation has a rendezvous with destiny.” Indeed! We have been among histories most blessed materially, and may very well be persecuted by our corrupted ancestor as in the 1st., 16th., and 17th. centuries. We’re blessed to have been chosen for this great privilege. Let us give thanks, and praise.
Of course, everyone is convinced that THEIR church is the exception to the rule. They will be offended, and there is absolutely nothing you can do to avoid that. They have not seen the corruption you may have been blessed to see. Try, as often as they will endure you, to educate them to the nature of the problem. You may never see results, but your labor on Christ’s behalf is not wasted. You’ve no idea when or whom or what God intends to employ to facilitate their enlightenment, even years into the future.
I’ve had people apologize for harboring anger toward me. In one case, a lady, having seen an educational program on T.V. about the Masonic Lodge, came and thanked me for warning her years before, and apologized for several years of detachment. To God be the glory. Amen. He did it, not I.
Your and my ministry is only that of the outer call. If He intends to redeem any particular individual, He will couple our ministry with that of His Holy Spirit, and the work will be complete…even if we have passed on…or been beheaded beside the altar. You’ll be labled all kinds of evil things, but at such times go back and read Mt.5:11&12. Remember what you read earlier about the apostles at Acts5:40-42?
Remember, God is much less diplomatic in His description of what the institution has become in Rev.17:5. At the dawn of the Christian era God had John describe the sorry state at which the church would arrive before Christ’s return, and yet for 2,000 years, and in spite of the abundance of seminaries, men have not recognized their beloved church in her “work cloths.” Only on God’s timetable is knowledge impartd.
What amazes is recognizing the same principle incorporated into the Old Testament. We now know that Christ was abundantly alluded to throughout, yet Scribes and theologians for centuries, study though they did, could not get their minds around the suffering savior. They finally concluded that they, the Jewish people, were thereby alluded to. Christ as savior was not understood until Jesus traveled to Emmaus with two fellows and opened to man’s understanding, at that time, His depiction from Moses through the Prophets. The information has been right under our noses, but He had it concealed from our perception until very recently. Guess who catches the flack for spreading the initial revelation? You got it.! None other than the messenger. There’s nothing new under the sun…still.
If deception of the magnitude previously mentioned can overtake the Billy Grahams and Harold Campings in our midst, does that give you even a hint to the reality that Satan has been released from “the pit” in which Christ bound him at His first advent? (Rev.20:1). Now He’s free to deceive for a little season, and we see his effect in the world church.
Revelation 20 gives us the chronology we need to know where we stand in relation to the end of the world:
Rev.20:1 “And I saw an angel (Christ’s first advent) come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (A lot of signification going on here).
Rev.20:2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, (Catch those allegories, Joel and James?) and Satan, and bound him a THOUSAND years (more figurative speech, a whole or perfect number, Ps.50:10; 1Chron.16:15 (1,000=all generations); Ps.33:11).
Rev.20:3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, TILL THE THOUSAND YEARS SHOULD BE FULFILLED: and AFTER that he must be loosed a little season. (Do you doubt we’re there?)
Rev.20:7. And when the THOUSAND YEARS are EXPIRED Satan shall be LOOSED out of his prison.
Rev.20:8. And shall go out to deceive the nations…
Rev.1:18 I AM he that liveth, and was dead; and behold, I am alive for evermore, (Obviously, Christ) Amen; AND HAVE THE KEYS OF HELL AND OF DEATH.
(Now go back up to vrs. 20:1)
Do you see from the above scriptures that Christ Bound Satan when Christ came to earth at His first advent? Satan, thus “restrained”, could not prevent the spread of the gospel throughout the earth, nor totally deceive the nations untill “He (Holy Spirit) who now letteth (restrains) will let, until he be taken out of the way” (2Thess.2:7). At THAT point, which in Oct. 2008 is in our past, we find ourselves looking back to Rev.20:3,7,8 as an HISTORICAL event, not future event as the Premillennial fable suggests. See how convoluted Satans deception is, to totally lull mankind into apathy and sleepy unwatchfulness as he establishes his earthly domain? “Sleep on church, you’ve got a THOUSAND years and more to live life as usual.”, and all of a sudden Christ is back, as a thief… Jack Van Impe may be able to “sell” you that false hope, but I’m not buying, mister. Churches, not the Bible, teach that incredible fable to the Biblically undernourished, and “shame on them” for doing it.
I do so wish I could justify exhausting all the scriptures at hand on this issue of the end of the church age, but in the interest of getting this much before the chosen few I’m going to stop here for the moment.
I hope by these feeble efforts you may have been blessed to see the errors of Dispensationalism and Millennialism. We’re not going back, here at the end of time, to pick up genetic Jews and glorify them rather than their Savior and our’s, Jesus Christ the Righteous.
There is no “thousand year” political, visible government (kingdom) coming at Christ’s 2nd. advent. We’ve been living in it for the last 2,000 years. The word you’re looking for regarding the Biblical Millennial Doctrine is “Amillennialism”, or some prefer to refer to it as Church Millennium, or Realized Millennium”, but we’ve about run the course, folks.
In obedience to the command of Christ at Mt.24:3, 15, 16 and Rev. 18:4…”Depart Out” (Luke 21:21) of corrupt…
MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT,
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
As with her prototype the geographic “Holy City” of Isa.1:21 and Rev.11:8, so with the spiritual “Holy City” of Mt5:14 and Rev.17:5. Prophecy of God in Christ is fulfilled in our day.
The skepticism and mockery accompanying the announcement of the imminent return of Christ, here at the end of time, is exactly parallel to the rejection of any such idea by the Temple authorities 2,000 years ago. This proclaimation is no undertaking for the faint of heart and faithless. Nor shall the lake of fire be.
Let us pray, beloved fellow sinners, for the various men discussed in this matter, but no more for them than for ourselves. Our race teeters on the precipice of eternal destiny, and praise be to God, not one of the “Elect” shall be lost (Jn.6:37). Pray to enter in by the narrow gate (Christ) on the basis of his “IMPUTED” righteousness to our bankrupt spiritual accounts. Acquittal, not merit is mankinds only hope, and it’s not only the best hope we’ve got going for us, it’s the only hope, and more than sufficient.
To God be all praise, honor and glory…both now, and forever more. Amen.
Lon
loncrawley@bellsouth.net
November 2, 2008 at 7:55 am |
Will,
Thank you for inquiring. I just haven’t had the time necessary to prepare topic postings. It takes me quite a long time to do them — yes, I’m quite slow. I will try to get another main topic up — and I like your idea about the rapture. That should garner some good discussion that takes us back to the Bible to support our positions.
To God Be The Glory,
Jeff
December 14, 2008 at 8:54 am |
[...] Joel Nederhood on “Depart Out” [...]
February 23, 2009 at 1:03 am |
Within the last couple of hours I typed: “Dr. Raymond C. Ortlund Jr.” into my search engine, and on page four(4) was surprised to find a link to this site.
The quote referred to is near the bottom of my comment of October 22,2008 @3:56A.M., just above my e-mail address which appears in blue type.
You may find my comments regarding John 3:16 on another page of this website of interest. To get there: 1. Return to the “Archives” window near the top of this page. 2. Click on “January 2008.” 3. Scroll down to the bottom of the second article titled: “The Inoffensive Gospel.” 4. Click on the word “Comments” in blue type. My first comment is dated November 12, 2008 @ 6:12 P.M. (4th. comment down)
October 28, 2009 at 12:02 pm |
Lonnie,
It has been a year since you wrote your very lengthy commentary above. It took me several lunch breaks to go through but it was worthwhile. Thank you very much for having the courage to say some of the things you did. God bless.
November 1, 2009 at 7:32 pm |
Dovetail,
I have not visited this site in months and am blessed beyond measure by your message.
I’m absolutely amazed by what God is doing. After a year without comment, suddenly there is you. Now get this! One hour and four minutes after your 12:02 P.M. posting, I received an email from a lady, a radiology systems analyst for a hospital in Manhattan. She is of an absolutely kindred spirit with us. She has, just this afternoon, given me permission to share some of her thoughts. Perhaps you and others will be as encouraged by her honesty, insightfulness, Integrity and faith as I am. She says in part:
“It is so comforting to know that there are actually others out there who are fully awake to the spiritual Great Tribulation we are now neck deep in. I am constantly seeking out through casual conversation with other “Christians” I meet here and there as to how aware they are of the deception engulfing the churches and the world in general. Sad to say, I can’t even count on one hand the amount of people I know who fully share our views on what is going on around us. Sometimes I wonder if I am the crazy one and everyone else is sane. Yes, everyone agrees that the churches in general are corrupt, but never theirs!!!
The biblical ignorance of so called Christians today is heart breaking. I don’t even argue with anyone anymore. The more I learn the quieter I become. The bible is my main source of comfort these days. So it is truly refreshing to come across commentaries such as yours. Thanks again.
One more thing. You are the first person I have heard talk about Masons in the church. This is new to me. How did you come by this information and how widespread is it?”
Now today I’ve received this response to materials I shared with her by email.
“Once again you have reminded me of the comfort I have taken over the past few years in memorizing God’s response to Elijah’s depressed cries of being the only one.
1 Kings 19:18
“Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.”
Yes. I know the remnant of spiritual Israel living in these last days are scattered across the face of the earth. Finding one another though is our greatest challenge.
As I walked to work from the subway in Manhattan one day last week, I was listening to the book of Amos on my iPod and was reminded once again of God’s warning for this time:
Amos 8:11-13
‘Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that… I will send… a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing (not its availability, but hearing) the words of the Lord:
And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the Lord, and shall not find it.
In that day shall fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.’
During the past several years I have been watching close friends and relatives who acknowledge that things have gone very wrong in their increasingly dead churches, literally run to and fro (church hopping) across the boroughs of New York city trying to find a “decent” church! They have become so addicted to going to “church” they refuse to believe that they have become the Great Whore of Rev.18. As I said before, I stopped arguing with anyone especially as the truth of Rev. 22:11 was impressed upon my heart. I believe the truth that God will take care of the Elect as He has promised. If a man is comfortable sitting in the pews of all that filth and think all is well with his soul, then that is probably where he belongs. Children naturally tend to draw close to their parents! The same applies on the spiritual level. I am learning more and more to stand still and let God be God.
I appreciate everything you are sharing with me. I won’t be able to respond as fully as I would like to each time because of the pressures of work and home with two young children. Today is a rare blessing for me being home alone. My husband took the kids to watch the Marathon and my mother faithfully went to church. Another time I will share experiences with growing up in the Roman Catholic church and my ten year church going days in the Baptist church which I left about seven years ago when they appointed their first woman pastor!”
With that she wishes me a blessed week and signs off.
I can almost hear the collective sigh of joy and relief of those of you who see yourselves in her experiences.
What hath God wrought?
Dovetail, you are only one of two with whom I’ve now had the priviledge of fellowship in this doctrinal issue of critical importance resulting from the tome above. To God be the glory my friend…my brother (Isa.40:9; Eph.1:6).
May one and all who may come this way know the joy and encouragement we’ve been given by God’s in Christ marvelous grace to we undeserving sinners.
This one other point of glad tidings. I know two other souls here in Thomson, Georgia who are of like mind with us. Moreover, one is a school teacher who hired a crew out of West Virginia to paint her house. It was through them that she came to this awareness. Rejoice ye saints of the most high God!
Ph.4:4…
“Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice.”
“May his glory be our only desire” Dr. Raymond C. Ortlund Jr.
“The best way to glorify the Father is to lift up the Son.” The late Clarke Curtis, my best friend.
God give you peace, joy and courage “dovetail.” I love you, brother.
Lon
November 13, 2009 at 9:20 am |
Lonnie,
Please see this blog’s post for 13 November 2009. Jeff
November 1, 2009 at 8:02 pm |
praise and golory to god amen… it is wonderful lon ,and dovetail to know the truth and others that GOD has given the truth to ,thanks GOD OUR FATHER IN JESUS CHRIST NAME….WGG
November 13, 2009 at 9:19 am |
William,
Please see this blog’s post for 13 November 2009. Jeff
November 13, 2009 at 9:59 am |
should be more blogs out there like this one